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Permission to use or quote from this transcript must be obtained from the Selbyville Public Library. May 25, 2001 LM: Ed, first tell me, if you don't mind, when were you born? EM: February 14, 1925. LM: What are some of your earliest memories as a child, say under the age of six? EM: Some of my earliest memories are sitting on the front porch of the old house and watching them building the first road, mechanic road, Main Street. Mr. John Townsend was the contractor. He put in roads in those days. The asphalt plant was up on the other side of the railroad track by the cemetery now. There used to be a real high sandy hill…that's what takes it low there, they used all the sand to make the roads. I remember the fellows working on the road had their feet and legs wrapped in burlap bags because it was hot asphalt and the machinery was run by steam, with those big steamrollers. When an airplane went by everyone went outdoors to look. Same way usually with a car, there wasn't too many cars here. Practically all the other roads in town were stone. I remember the town had a horse drawn scraper, one man stood on the back of it with two big wheels, another man drove it. Mr. Otis Baker used to drive it and they'd scrape. LM: What was that man's name again? EM: Otis Baker. LM: How do you spell his first name? EM: ATTUS, ATTIS. I really don't know. And then this street here, McCabe Street, was called Turkle Avenue because it was nothing but big mud puddles, they used to haul timber in and out to the Manufacturing Company and leave big ruts. It was a mess. When we were young boys, my father owned all the land back by where the doctor's office is…all around there… and we used to have corn stacks and all the boys would play cowboys and Indians then. We'd go back in there and hide in the corn stacks and play around. Then when we got older, another fellow and me would go back and take a kite, tie balloons on it and lay back and shoot at it with a rifle. All that land before it was developed was hilly and sandy. We used to find all kinds of flint and broken arrows. It must have been an Indian summer camp. There was no flint or anything around here, it had to be brought here. There was an old swimming hole by the bend where the boys used to go buck bathing. We had a big time. LM: You mean, naked? EM: Naked. We never got into any trouble. We played. I know when I was 5 years old, my brother and I used to walk up and down the ditch bank with a rifle shooting birds and fish. This ditch one time had fish in it. When we were kids there were little perch, sunfish and pikes. You'd shoot beside them with a rifle and knock them out. The water was so pure, we never came into the house to drink water, we drank water right out of the ditch. Nice sandy bottom. We never bothered anybody. LM: Where did your family……did they take vacations? What did they do for fun? EM: Well, the only thing I know of, used to be my mother's sister and her husband and family, they lived in Newark. They'd come down in the summertime and they'd come down to the beach--to Fenwick Island. Of course, there wasn't anything down in Fenwick Island. The Inlet cut through, we used to ride down there and used to go across it on boards. Of course, eventually they redug it out. But we didn't do too much vacationing in those days. We'd go to Ocean City Saturday nights in the summer. My Grandfather built a boat and we went boating. LM: Well, did you have picnics? EM: Very seldom, only around home. Some people, after they got older, would go down to the beach and have bonfires. I know when Mary and I were first married people went down and gathered driftwood up and down the beach and have a big fire and roast hotdogs and marshmallows. When I was a little boy, like I showed you these pictures of boy scouts, every year they had an encampment. One year they'd go to Fenwick Island one year they'd go Sandy Landing. Dad used to take the boys down. See, the whole beach was nothing but sand dunes and hot. LM: Lots of mosquitoes? EM: Lots of mosquitoes and then the next year they'd go to Sandy Landing which was along the Indian River. LM: Did you have chores when you were a kid? EM: Oh yes, everybody worked. There was so much you had to do. When Dad used to do a little farming in summer time, we used to have to pick tomatoes and so forth. One year when we boys were little older, Dad gave us some land and we had a small tomato patch. They were the most beautiful tomatoes you'd ever seen. Of course they had an auction in town then where everybody brought them out of town. Tomato baskets are so big, we only got 5 cents a basket for them, and the baskets cost us 6 cents. So that was my last year of farming. LM: Was that your first effort to make money? EM: Yes, my first effort. LM: How old were you then? EM: I wasn't very old. Big enough to work. LM: What other kind of chores did you have? EM: Cutting grass, having to keep the grass cut, pull weeds, those kinds of things. LM: What did you do as a family on Sunday? EM: We all went to Sunday school-most of the time to church. A lot of times on Sunday afternoons, Dad would take us all riding or we'd go around on day trips in an old Model A Ford. I had an Aunt down in Ocean City and she used to have the old Caroline Hotel. They owned that whole section years ago where you go in on the bridge. That was my grandfather's sister-Mumford married Mumford-two different families. LM: So your families go back a long ways here? EM: A long ways. In fact we were one of the 13 original colonists. Like this piece of land here, the land grants go back to 1700's right here in Selbyville. I think this land around here was one-I was a great friend of Miss Maude McCabe was-used to go visit with her a lot, she had a deed on sheepskin framed, hanging on the wall. And I think this is the same one that was patented, April 12, 1742. James William Mumford, 50 acres, sold 50 acres to John McCabe. LM: What year was that? EM: It was patented, April 12, '48 and was sold to John McCabe in '72, 1772. It was called Mumford's choice. LM: Well, that's great. In other words you still have a lot of relatives around here? EM: Oh yeah, at one time you had to be careful about the way you talked because everyone was related. LM: So, what kind of food did you eat back then? EM: We raised most all of it. I used to go to the store with my grandmother because we did a lot of bartering. We used to carry a basket of eggs to the store and bargain for other things. And Mr. George McGee used to have a store down by the railroad tracks. He would take live chickens. He had a building in back where he used to put live chickens. Then they'd get coops for them they send them to the city. People would trade them for canned goods. LM: So lots of time you didn't necessarily use money. EM: That's right. My grandfather used to grow sweet corn. We used to have an A&P store in town and he used to get a penny an ear. A dollar a hundred. LM: So, Sunday dinner. What was the big thing to eat on Sunday? EM: We used to try to have chicken. Everybody had a barnyard then, we'd usually have chicken. A lot of times we'd have company and have roast beef. Of course, everybody raised hogs. We had big hogs. LM: You raised hogs? EM: My family did, I never did. Everybody had hogs. LM: But were they like next to your house or on a piece of land? EM: Back of that old house there, there was a building way in the back. The pig pen was way in the back, the last thing. When my brother and I came home from the war all of those buildings were full of everything you could think of. We tore them down and burned them up. We burned up a fortune in antiques. LM: What did your father do for a living when you first remember his work? EM: Well, one time he was in the garage business. He went into the garage business with Mr. Bob Joines one time and they sold Oakland cars. Then he took care of the school for awhile. He worked for the town, he worked at investigating stuff - I forget what it's called - Commercial Credit Company. LM: Okay, like a private investigator? EM: Retail credit company or something like that. LM: Okay, when you started school did you go from the first grade to the twelfth grade in the same building? EM: No. There was a little schoolhouse across from the big schoolhouse and it had four rooms in it. It had big coal stoves in it and one drinking fountain out in the hall. A lot of times they had two grades in one room, but there were four rooms. We moved over to the big school when I was in 2nd grade. LM: So that would have been around 1931/32? EM: I think the school was built in 32. Well, let's see. My birthday was in February, so I was 6 years old when I started school. So in 2nd grade I was what….seven? LM: Is that when you moved into the bigger building? EM: The big new building, brick building. LM: So you saw that being built? EM: Oh, yes. LM: And wasn't that part of a WPA program? EM: I don't know, but I think DuPonts financed a lot of it for work. They hired almost all local people to do it. LM: Okay, but this was during the depression? EM: During the depression. Right. I remember my Dad's old mule when they moved the little schoolhouse. He rented the mule to the people who moved it. They would pull it so far then have to put the windless up further. The old mule would walk round and round and pulled it. LM: So you went into a brand new school in the 2nd grade? EM: A brand new school. LM: And that's the same building you graduated from? EM: Yes. Miss…I can't remember her name…they lived down in Roxana. She was my teacher. Miss McCabe. Miss Pearl McCabe was my teacher. LM: So you were growing up during the depression? EM: Right in the depression. LM: So how did that effect you and your family? EM: Well I didn't know too much because I didn't know no different. Of course it effected everybody hard. It was a hard life a very hard life. And this section of the country didn't start advancing any until the chicken business. Of course we had a lot of strawberries here, a lot of strawberries. They used to tell me that there would be as much as 75 carloads a day going out of here-freight cars. They were lined all the way up from the railroad station to Roxana Road. LM: Now what decade would that be? EM: That would be the 30's, 20's and 30's. Most of it was horse and wagon. LM: When you say 75 loads, is that railroad cars or wagon loads? EM: Railroad cars. They had an ice plant here. These cars had to be iced when they could take them to the city or they'd spoil. They used to have shoots that would run clear down-what they'd call hog yards, they'd shoot these big 100 pound cases of ice and put it in each individual car and get it cool first. They tell me that my grandfather was the one who put in all these side tracks around here - the railroad-when they moved down here from Georgetown. When my father was a little boy and Grandpop worked on the Pennsylvania Railroad, and he put in all these tracks around here. In the wintertime, farmers didn't have anything to do and they go out into the woods and cut ties for the tracks. My grandfather used to take care of that, they'd stamp them. You've probably seen that on railroad ties, P for Pennsylvania Railroad, some had ones and twos. They stamped the quality of the ties. That's the way a lot of them made money in the wintertime. So they tell me. LM: So, when you graduated from high school in 43, did you have a job then? EM: I was running the theater up here, believe it or not. 17/18-year old boys were unbelievable. But we had a beautiful theater up here. It was the prettiest one, they said at one time, the best one south of Milford. It was Diamond Globe Corporation, Mr. Quillen, of Berlin owned both of them. I started there when I was 15. Mr. Omwick, the principal, used to let me off. I started out taking tickets and started learning. As the war progressed everybody was drafted and I was the last man left. I was 17 years old and running the theater. Sometimes on a big night we'd take in over $600 a night. And Florence Stephens--Florence Bixler--she worked there awhile. Robert Gault he worked, he took tickets. Louise Long sold tickets. Nellie Swift and Hannah Long helped, too. My brother, he started out too. Mitch Parker of Berlin, Ocean City, he taught him. He was drafted. The man before me was drafted. There wasn't anybody else but us kids, we had to run it. Jimmy Hall of Berlin was the one who ran the one in Berlin. LM: How much did it cost to get in? EM: The most we ever got was 35 cents. 25 cents for adult, I believe 15 cents for children, if I remember right. LM: So was the theater a really important place to go? EM: The biggest thing in town. That whole section up there would be loaded with people clear out to the curb, both shows. We've had shows where there wasn't any standing room in the lobby or anywhere. LM: How many people did the theater hold? EM: I forget now. Better shows would take in over $600 per night, quite a few people. LM: I can't even imagine. So did you have like double features and things like that? EM: We had two shows a night. We tried to show a comedy, some were cartoons, and we had newsreels. You've seen those on television. Sometimes a travel log. We always tried to make a two-hour show. The first show got out at nine, and after the first reel of the second show, I'd close down and anybody that wanted to come in could come in. I'd go back in the office and do my homework for school. Then we'd close up around 11 o'clock. We worked. LM: Now, who did the reel? EM: My brother taught old big Harvey Hudson from Williamsville to run the projector when I left. I don't know who took over. LM: So how old were you when you were drafted? EM: 18 LM: 18, so tell me something about your WWII experiences? Where did you go, where did you train? EM: I was very fortunate. I went across the continent four different ways. I was in California two times. I was in Southern California and I was Northern California. We shipped out a month before Christmas. I spent about two or three Christmases overseas. I traveled around a lot. I was in the United States. I was in California twice, Nevada, Philadelphia Navy Yard, Quanset Point, Rhode Island, Williamsburg, VA. We travelled in Pullman cars. When we were going from Port Hueneme up to Seattle, WA, I think there were either 13 or 14 Pullman cars. Pullman cars were terribly big. You'd start going around a mountain up there and you'd look and see one end way back there. We hit Seattle in a dark night. Seattle was just lights on a hill. Then I was shipped to Attu off the Alaska Coast - across the Bering Strait. LM: It was a big deal for a boy from the country to go all across country to all these places. EM: Of course, many people around here had never been off the Peninsula. LM: Had you ever been off? EM: No. As far as I'd ever been was Philadelphia. LM: Did you feel a little lost? EM: Sure, we didn't know what was coming off. Everything was new, you know. We soon made friends. The worst part of it was, when we were coming back the first time, the ship stood off San Francisco till after dark, and we wanted to get home. We came through the Golden Gate after dark. We pulled up to the docks, we were lined up. We don't know what was the matter, we must have looked awful. We never got to see anything, they ran us right through the dock, put us on buses with curtains pulled, and took us out to a recouperation and replacement camp. We stayed there and were quarantined for two weeks, we couldn't do anything. Then they let the boys on the West Coast go on their 30 day leave, after the came back they let us go. I spent some time in Davisville, RI after that. Then we were going back on out across the continent. We were about mid way, it was reported twice that the war was over, first time it was reported we were aboard train. Then it came out that it wasn't true. Then we got in the base there and the report came out that it was over--as we were just ready to ship right out. That was a happy day. LM: When was that, 1945? EM: Yes, 1945. LM: So when you came home, was that the first time you'd been home since you went in the service? EM: It had been over two years. I got to come home after we went through our training and when I was stationed those months up in Rhode Island, me and another fellow used to take off, we weren't supposed to do it, but we'd take off and come home. We'd leave Providence at 7 o'clock at night and we'd get in Wilmington about 1 o'clock in the morning. At that time there were no trains, no buses, no nothing coming and so we'd hitchhike on home. LM: From Wilmington? EM: From Wilmington. Once in a while somebody would pick you up. And then you'd have to go back Sunday afternoon. LM: So, what was Selbyville like during the war when you came back? EM: It was the most beautiful place you've ever seen in your life. I had been across the continent four times, and it was the most beautiful place on earth. LM: I bet. So, most young men left town, right? EM: That's right. I can't think of not over three or four men of Selbyville, of Selbyville boys, that are left. LM: How big was Selbyville in the war, do you think, with the young men if they'd been there? EM: I think it must have been 800 to 1000 people. LM: Then after the war, what did you do? EM: Well, I'd signed up to go to college. I've made a lot of mistakes in my lifetime. I was all signed up to go and got thinking about after WWI there was a big depression. I said I bet it's going to hit this time so I think I'd better learn a trade. I was supposed to go Monday morning - I was all signed up to go - eventually I learned a trade, plumbing and heating. I was in that for about 50 years. Me and my brother. LM: Where did you learn the trade? EM: Mary's uncle. He moved down from Philadelphia. He had a plumbing and heating business in town. My brother at that time was living in the house beside him and he was looking for help. So we both went to work for him. LM: Now, who's Mary? EM: Mary's, my wife. LM: So that's how you met her through her uncle? EM: That's the way I met Mary. LM: Okay, how old were you when you got married? EM: 23, I believe it was. 23 LM: And then Mary moved down here and this is where you…. EM: Well she came down in the summer and worked in the office. After she graduated she came down and that's how I got married. LM: When did you get married? EM: New Years Day Eve. LM: Where? EM: In my brother's home. It poured rain. LM: So did you have a reception in your brother's home? EM: No, just the family is all. We didn't do anything. LM: Did you go on a honeymoon? EM: No. LM: You just went right back to work. EM: It took us 50 some years to go on a honeymoon when we went over to Germany. LM: Oh, that must have been wonderful. EM: Because all we did was work. We went to work at 7 o'clock sometimes. When we worked in Rehoboth we wouldn't get home until 5:30 and work in the office till 11 o'clock on blueprints. We didn't have much time to do nothing. LM: Okay, well let's talk a little bit about the town itself. You know you were talking about working in the theater when you were a teenager, what do you remember about the town? What kind of stores were here--what kind of businesses? EM: One thing we had two drug stores beside the theater. One was Doc Hastings, of course that building is gone now. And Doc Whittiker was the little building that's still there on the end on the west side of the theater. There were two drug stores with soda fountains. Then across the way was a furniture store. There was a tremendous amount of grocery stores in town. There were 6 agencies in town where you could buy cars or trucks brand new. LM: This was before WWII? EM: Yes. There were a lot of feed stores. At one time, before the war, we had a shoemaker shop, lock shop, and we had an A&P store at one time. Let me think…Baltimore Trust had four buildings. The first one was an old wood one and then the big brick one besides Rufus Smith's store which is that store up there now. A big white one which was on the corner, and now the one you have today. Then we used to have another bank across the street on the corner. LM: How many banks were there? EM: There were two banks in town. Baltimore Trust Company had about four from the time they started building. LM: And the other bank was called? EM: I forget what it was called. Selbyville Bank or something. It was run by Mr. Will Derrickson and Mr. Ed Baker. It went up during the depression sometime. LM: Then there's always just been the one bank. EM: A lot of houses in town have gone. There used to be, right on this corner here beside the Library, a house there. And another house in back of Roland Scott's store. There used to be a livery stable between the corner and Conn Scott's store. There used to be a livery stable there in back of the old bank. LM: Was there a hotel in town? EM: There was a hotel on the other side of the railroad tracks. A big hotel. Down the railroad track used to be what they called the old bakery. A two story building. One time they showed movies there too. I've heard my Dad say they used to skate up on the second floor. Then eventually it was made into four apartments. Across from that was old Dennard Campbell's house. An old big house there. This was owned by Dennard Campbell. LM: Could you take the train from Selbyville? EM: At one time, Selbyville had two passenger trains a day. LM: Now when was that? EM: That was in my boyhood. LM: But eventually Selbyville lost passenger service? EM: That's when all the railroads……..that's what my Grandfather said and it wasn't a very nice thing to say…..he worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad for a long time. He said, when I was a kid, that he hoped he lived long enough to see the Pennsylvania Railroad brought to their knees. They were awful to work for. He's happy he did.. LM: But by WWI there was no passenger service? EM: No. LM: Just freight? EM: The Short Line had buses running. First they used to bring films down and flowers for the theater. The bus line used to go right in town here. Then it was eventually a regular company who brought the films to the theater at nighttime for the next show. LM: When did you start seeing a lot of cars in town? EM: After the war. Everybody when they came home from the war and been out and saw things and money was a little more plentiful. LM: So when did you get your first car? EM: Oh, I didn't - all the boys were buying cars and wrecking them. I put my money in the bank. I built a house and married before I bought a car. I was married three years before I ever bought a car. LM: What was it? EM: A big Oldsmobile. LM: What year? EM: I don't know. I forget. LM: Something in the 40's? EM: Yes, in the 40's. LM: How many children do you have? EM: I have three children, two girls and one boy. My boy lives up in Dagsboro, one of the girls live in Rockville and one lives in Springfield. LM: So how long had you been married before you had all three children? EM: We had been married three years before we had the first child. Then five years and then four years. LM: Were they born in hospitals? EM: The first one was born in Lewes, the other two in Salisbury. LM: That was a long ways to go. EM: A long ways to go. LM: When did the duel come through - the really big 113? EM: The man that really caused that dual to come through was Mr. Grapperhaus that used to have the Newspaper. He fought and fought through the Newspaper to get it and he finally got it. I forget when it came through, though. LM: Was it before WWII? (No) EM: I don't remember. LM: Did it change Selbyville? EM: Oh yes, I think it did. LM: How would you say? EM: Well, see trucks started it after the war. Trucks really started it. See Selbyville used to be the hub of this whole community-at one time beans were picked-butter beans (limas). They'd come pick them in big baskets. Then strawberries-then they had layer chickens-eggs were a big thing around here. Then chickens--broilers. LM: I remember once that Sears had their…….. EM: Sears & Roebuck had their offices at Buntings Nursery. They bought all the flowers and scrubs, stuff like that. Mr. Lort ran it. Dick Lort's father. LM: What did Sears do with the stuff…….?? EM: It was in their catalog. LM: In their catalog? They shipped it out all over the country. EM: Yes. It was a big business. This post office did a big business at one time. LM: Because it was so much shipping. Selbyville was a pretty prosperous town. EM: It was. This town was a busy town. This town was a really busy place. LM: I remember you telling me once about all the car dealers. How many car dealers were around? EM: Pontiac, Ford, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile. We had GMC trucks, Stuart Trucks. LM: This was like in the 50's and 60's? EM: Yes, and back further. Way back, where the theater was, was a Ford agency. A man by the name of Mr. Godwin had it first, then it burned down. Then he built a big cement block building. That's what turned into the theater. Of course it is gone now. It was where that little park is up there. LM: You showed me a newspaper that had a picture of the 13th chicken festival. Tell me what was that like? EM: I don't know, I don't think I even went to it. LM: Do you remember going to an early one? EM: No, I never went to one. LM: You never went to one? EM: No. I was too busy. LM: You just worked hard. Your brother and you had your plumbing business for 50 years? EM: Well, we started and it took 6 years to get our plumbing license. After 6 years then we started our own. He quit before I did. I really quit after I had lung trouble. I had to quit. LM: What were some of the biggest jobs you ever did? EM: Motels down at the beach. When we learned our trade with Al Childson, practically all we did was schoolhouses and churches. LM: It kept you busy. EM: And, when we went back to doing homes and things like that, we had to learn all over again. LM: Why was that? EM: It was all different situations. You were dealing with big stuff and schools. At that time, the schoolhouses were built so good in those days, the inspectors were hired by DuPonts. The State had nothing to do with the inspection. They were paid by the DuPont Foundation. Things had to be right. If he didn't see anything right, you had to tear it out. I've seen masons come down there work all day long on a brick wall, he come in the next day and say 'I told you fellows I wanted it straight. Tear it down.' And they'd tear it down and build it up again. That's the reason the old schoolhouses are still here. And when you back filled dirt, you did not put anything in it but dirt. Not a twig, stone, or nothing because it would settled. And he stood right there and watched you. I never had any trouble with him. Because before we'd ever start anything I'd go to his office and I'd say, 'how do you want this done?' If you did what he said, that's it. I never had a minutes trouble with him. LM: You had a trade. What did people do for a living around here when you started here on business? EM: Carpenters. Jim Law was an electrician. He had a building back there where the bank is on the corner. There were a lot of carpenters around here. Mechanics because there were quite a few garages. That kind of stuff. LM: Okay, let's see if we can try some special events in Selbyville history. When you came home from the war, did they have a parade? EM: No. No parade. That's what I always laughed at. They showed in the movies and stuff, ships and stuff coming in and all these people there. I never saw any in my life. I think that was staged. LM: I know that since I've lived here the Halloween parade is a big deal. EM: We used to have a Memorial Day Parade. That's like these Boys Scouts I showed you a picture of when Dad was Scout Master years ago, when I was a little boy, they used to have big parades over Memorial Day. LM: Tell me, did a lot of people come out? Did the fire department drive their trucks down? EM: They didn't do too much of that kind of stuff in those days. That's in later years that they started that. LM: That's a big part of parades now days. When did you join the Red Men's? EM: I haven't been a Red Men very many years. Not over 5 or 6 years. I never had time to belong to anything. Our old boss when we were learning our trade tried to get us to join the Lion's Club. We didn't have time to do it. Working and raising a family, we weren't interested. LM: But you enjoy it now? EM: Yes. LM: Tell me a little bit more about the Red Men. That's an interesting organization. EM: The Red Men started because of the Boston Tea Party. The Boston Tea Party started up the Red Men. Then they came on up. At one time there were several million. There were nearly about, in a lot of places, throwing whole elections, the Red Men could. But like everything else it's gotten smaller and smaller. What we do here, we take care of the Red Men's Cemetery. We spend all of our money up there. We are the main outfit that supports Alzheimer's disease. We give several thousands of dollars every year. LM: The building that they use, that's one of the older buildings in town? EM: That is an old building. I used to go to Sunday School there then I was a kid. The community club used to be there. They had a stage and use to put on shows, suppers and there was a kitchen upstairs. Then they built the fire house, which is the dance studio down there. The fire house was built, then they had suppers and things over there. LM: Wasn't that building also the Grange? EM: The Red Men's building was first the Grange. LM: Now, what was the Grange? EM: A farmer's organization. LM: So it was like, so they could be a political power or organized for other things? EM: That's right. LM: That must have been pretty important then since this was so agricultural? EM: It was, this was all agriculture--no industry. LM: Were there any other big organizations like that in town? EM: The Oddfellows. LM: What did they do? EM: It was a lodge. I think my father belonged to that. It was the biggest in the state. See there was nothing for anybody to do, so everybody went to lodges in those days. I remember when I was a little boy, the first movie I saw, there used to be a building where Dollar General is now, a silent picture. A ghost picture, I was a little old fellow scared to death. It was run by a man named Clendanial. His son played the player piano while the moved was going on. They showed cowboy pictures and stuff. LM: So did you go to that once a week? EM: Once in awhile. I think it might have cost 10 cents. Of course, when we were kids, you were lucky if someone gave you a dime to spend while you were down there during the depression if you were going to Ocean City. You went to Ocean City like you were going to church. Men wore their suits and the women were dressed up. LM: What did you do when you were down there? EM: Walked the boardwalk and messed. There were seats up and down the boardwalk. Folks would sit and talk - that's where you met everybody. LM: Were there dances? EM: Years later there were, there used to the a Pier Club down there. It had all the big named bands. Then after the war, there used to be a Cotillion Club. They'd have it once a year and everybody would go in their tuxedos and women in evening dresses. LM: Did you do that? EM: Mary and I used to go. They had different big bands every year. Benny Goodman, all those boys. LM: So this was maybe 50's, 60's. EM: Yes, that was after Mary and I were married. LM: Okay, you were telling me about some minutes you found. EM: I have an old book at home, somewhere, but I can't find it now of the minutes of the old school board way back in 1800's where the yearly program was $125 a year. That took care of paying the teacher, it told who they contracted out to. They told of the old fellows who would bring in the firewood for the stoves and all expenses. There used to be a school, too, between here and Frankford which they called Hogyards on what they called the Gum Corner. That was one school up there. LM: Hogyards? EM: Hogyards. There was a hogyard down here and a hogyard up there. There was a hogyard down here where the train used to be loading strawberries. It went down to the Maryland line. But this was between here and Frankford. Old man Jim Flood's mother used to teach school up there. (Nora) LM: Tell me about Old Timer's Day? How far back do you remember that? EM: I remember back to the first one. When it started there were so many people in town you could hardly get out of your driveway. They would park in front of your driveway clear up Main Street all over town. LM: How far back do you think that was? EM: I don't know. (approximately 1950) LM: But it's been 40 or 50 years? EM: It was a big thing then. I would say so. What Old Timer's Day, as I understand, started out for was for their old stock up in their attics that didn't sell. They would put it out with a cheap price. LM: So people would come from all over? EM: Yes, it was a big deal. LM: From Dagsboro and Ocean City? EM: Yes, but then it got a little less and less every year. LM: So when they first started doing it besides selling things cheap out on the sidewalk did they also have the other activities like the circus? EM: I don't think so. That came later. LM: Let's talk about some of the special people that you remember from the town, like some of the mayors, Senator Townsend. EM: There used to be Mr. Jim McCabe, he was an old patriot, he was an insurance man. Of course, the Scott's. Mr. Roland Scott and Conn Scott. There used to be Mr. Willie R. McCabe. Clayton Bunting of Buntings Nueseries. LM: Tell me what they did? EM: Mr. Willie R. McCabe was a man that had this other bank. He had the McCabe Bank. See John Townsend's bank was the Baltimore Trust Company. There were a lot of people in town. Mr. William R. Tubbs. Mr. Cale McCabe and Mr. Norman Davis had McCabe and Davis Store. LM: What did Mr. Tubbs do? EM: He moved in town and I think he had a sawmill or a hardware store down around Williamsville. I don't know whether he had the canning factory at one time or not. At one time in town here there used to be two canning factories. There was one down past where the Manufacturing Company was and one where the chicken plant is. That was Mr. Townsend's-where the chicken plant is today. John Townsend. And then after they quit canning, it didn't pan out good in later years, they had to close up because of environmental or something. Mr. Townsend started the chicken plant. He didn't keep it very long. LM: But that was the first chicken plant here in Selbyville? EM: Yes. That was the first one. I think he sold it to Homer Pepper and Helen Hudson - H&H. I believe that was the next one. And after that I think Winton Gouge had it. We used to go kart with him. His son used to do a lot of go kart racing. After that, I think, Mountaire bought it. LM: So there's been a chicken plant on that location since before you were born? EM: No, because that was a canning factory. LM: Before you were born? EM: Way after I was born. It wasn't a chicken plant until chickens started getting big around here. LM: Which was in the 30's, wasn't it? EM: Early 30's. It really didn't get big until later. I don't remember. LM: Well now, you've had several people in Selbyville that have served in the State Government. John Townsend and Donald Lynch. EM: Mr. Roland Scott was in the House of Representatives too, I think. During the war I wanted to go into the Naval Aviation Cadet Corp, I signed up for that. They didn't go out off the street and pick people up for that. He was one of the men who wrote a letter for me - a recommendation-with all the rest of them around here. Unfortunately, my eyes stopped me and I didn't get that. LM: Was Mr. Roland Scott, was he a State Representative? EM: I think he was a State Representative, I believe he was. LM: Did he start the clothing store on the corner? EM: No, that was Mr. McCabe - no-his father in law was in it first. Then Conn started the furniture store. LM: What's the relationship between Roland Scott and Conn Scott? EM: They're brothers. Then Conn went out on his own. He started the furniture side of the clothing store. LM: Everybody called him Conn? EM: Yes. Before, when we were kids, between that store and the other store there was an opening. There was a great big weeping willow tree. On Saturday afternoon all the old men, we called them old men, would pitch horseshoes. First was Mr. Hudson, he worked for Mr. Savage, which was the butcher store. The butcher store was where the barber shop is. Mr. Hudson built a store around the side of Roland Scott's store - a grocery store. Then Reese Peters came up from Berlin and put the 5&10 cent store in. I think that is where the insurance building is now. Then beside of that was an A&P store, and there was a little hallway in there where they used to haul in old wagons. Then Mr. Frank Holloway had a hardware store and small grocery store. Beside of that was the drug store with an apartment over top of it. Then there was a little open spot in there and that was a theater. LM: So you had everything you needed in town? EM: Everything in town. LM: Where did most people go to church? EM: Salem. When we were kids, my grandfather was the custodian, that was before the back building was built. When they built that building, that church had a big pile of granite rocks back there and it stayed there for years and years. One day when I was a little kid, my grandfather went around there with a mule and wagon loaded them on the wagon and carried them home. They stayed in back of Dad's for years. When I built my house, that walk out front there, the town messed my walk up now, those stones in there were the granite left over from when they built this church. LM: When you built your house, did you build it by yourself or did you hire someone? EM: No. I had to have the outside closed in and the inside done, but I finished it myself inside. LM: Even though you were a plumber, you were also a carpenter? EM: No. Not the carpentry work, like finishing the wall, painting and floors. That kind of stuff. LM: Did you hire people from around here to do the work? EM: Oh yes. LM: Generally, were they people from Selbyville? EM: No, the man that built it was from, I believe, Willards. He built a couple three houses in town here at that time. LM: When did you have your first telephone? EM: After I went in business. LM: I guess you needed it for your business? EM: Yes. Dad had one way before then, though. I never liked telephones myself. LM: When did you have your first TV? EM: Carl and Esther Lekites, out there at C&E television, they owned that. Esther's my cousin. My brother and I, we worked down at their house, they lived in Bethany Beach at that time. So we swapped our work for televisions. That's what we used to do. My brother and I both got televisions, we swapped our work for that. LM: I remember you talking about earlier when you were younger, people swapped food for other food. Did you do a lot of that when you were in the plumbing business - swap services? EM: Not too often. Just with my cousin. I don't know if we got a refrigerator that way or not. We did all their work in their building, the heating and plumbing in their building when they put it up. I think we swapped some of that for….. LM: But just once in awhile? EM: Yes. LM: Were there saloons around here? EM: Saloons… LM: Drinking…. EM: Not in town. There used to be beer parlors outside of town. Years ago they used to sell bootleg whiskey in town. LM: Oh really? Tell me about that. EM: In the summertime you could smell in up from the swamp because they were making it. If the wind was blowing right. LM: That was where the stills were? What did it smell like? EM: Whiskey. LM: Okay. Was it a pretty good business for the people that were in it? EM: It must have been, I really don't know because I was young then. LM: Were there ever dance halls or……. EM: I don't remember any dance halls in town. LM: The theater was the big thing? EM: That's right the theater. I don't remember any dance halls because you see the Methodist Church never believed in dancing. LM: How about bowling alleys? EM: Yes, at one time there was a bowling alley here. Somewhere in that section around Dollar General. That's where the bowling alley was and the theater was there too at one time. Then another fellow had milk bars and stuff in there for kids at one time. LM: How long did that last? EM: Not long. LM: It just wasn't something that took off for Selbyville? EM: I know when Doc Hastings built his new drugstore, we piped it up so he could have a soda fountain in there and it would filter it back out. LM: So when the duel highway came through, did that start changing Selbyville? EM: I don't know. It's a funny thing to say but I think Selbyville changed after they put the sewer system in. LM: Why that's an interesting thought. EM: I don't know why but ever since then Selbyville went down hill. LM: So when was that? EM: I don't remember. LM: We're talking probably when you are in business? EM: Oh yeah. I was in the hospital in '73 and it was put in a couple of years before that. Must have been in the late 60's early 70's. LM: Then Selbyville started losing businesses? EM: All the businesses are gone. LM: There aren't any where near as many as their used to be. EM: As far as I can count up houses, if I haven't made a mistake there are either 25 or 26 houses less than there were in '35. Of course if your house is gone and there is a business there, you can't call it a family - because the family is gone. LM: Where did the people go? EM: I don't know. Older people died out and younger people moved on. LM: Like your three children…. EM: See, they've gone. They don't live in the area. ***********Skip in the tape********** EM: They'd get strawberry pickers and bring them down here. They'd have shanties for them to live in and pick strawberries. LM: Where were the shanties located? EM: There was a field there in back of the house. LM: Up here on Main Street? EM: Yes. Then after that everything changed years ago, we moved the shanty up front and Dad cut the front out and used it for a garage. LM: Is that what's still there? EM: No it's gone. We used to have, everybody had, smokehouses. They kept a bed made up all the time, tramps used to come around, they weren't bums, they were tramps. And they would work. We used to have an old fellow who'd come around and we called him Uncle Billy. We thought the world of him. He'd come in sometime during the night and he'd go back there and sleep. But always before they left they'd have a great big pile of wood cut or something like that for you. We'd give them sandwiches. LM: Was this when you were a kid? EM: Yes, when I was a kid. We thought the world of him. He used to play with us - me and James. LM: So he went from place to place doing jobs to have a place to sleep and have some food. EM: That's right. If they would come up to ask you for something to eat, they'd work for it. LM: That was the deal? EM: Yes, and you never knew when he was going to leave. He could be their a week or two days. Everything could be going fine and you'd wake up the next morning and he'd be gone. LM: But you got used to that. EM: You just got used to it. They kept a bunk made up all the time in the smokehouse. LM: Did a lot of people do that? EM: As far as I know. LM: I mean, a lot of people around town would keep a place for the tramps to stay? EM: I don't know about that. I know we did it at our house. LM: In other words you saw a lot of tramps go through? EM: Yes, See this was during the depression. Some of them were highly educated men and they had nothing to do. LM: So this was how they made their living. EM: They didn't go out and steal or things like that. LM: That would have been a bum. Well I never knew that distinction. EM: I remember one time little Doc Hastings, Gene Bunting, me, and Bill Hut were going to Philadelphia to a ball game. LM: Bill Hut is a midget who grew up when you were a kid. EM: He used to have a billygoat and a cart. His grandfather was a blacksmith here. He'd come to town riding this cart with this billygoat. LM: The billygoat pulled the cart? EM: Yes. We went to the ballgame up to Philadelphia one time. At that time there wasn't but one traffic light between here and Wilmington. That was up there in New Castle. Bill Hut, as soon as he got in the car, started talking and he never let up. We hit that red light at New Castle and someway or another a Gray Hound bus pulled out. Doc through the brakes on, slammed the car around. Someway or another, Bill Hut and me were sitting on the back seat, and he was down in the middle of the floor and the seat was on top of him. He got straightened out and he never said another word up to Philadelphia. LM: What ball game did you go to see? EM: I forget what it was. I think it was at Veterans Stadium. It was big league baseball. LM: Now did you do that from time to time or was this a one time thing? EM: Not too often. Used to be, Jim Wilgus (Gene's older brother), we used to run around together with another fellow in town. Jim had a girlfriend in Philadelphia. Sometimes we take off on a Saturday because Jim had a car - Ford 35 or 36 car. We'd ride to Wilmington and pull into the railroad station and park it. Jim would get on a train and go to Philadelphia. After he'd leave, we'd get in Jim's car and we'd go to Philadelphia and stay all afternoon. We knew when he'd come home, so we'd come back and park the car in the same place. Jim never did figure out where his gasoline was going. LM: Did you play sports when you were a kid? EM: A little bit. I was never any good at it. I used to play baseball. LM: Was that a big deal around here? EM: Oh yeah. They used to play football. The schools had football, they were big teams, then it got so they didn't have enough boys to play so it got down to 6 man football. LM: Oh, I've ever heard of such a thing. EM: During the war they got down to 6 men. LM: Was it tackle or touch? EM: Tackle. LM: Little League is really big around here now. Was it then too? EM: There wasn't such a thing. What little boys played then was in the back yard. LM: Did you play marbles? EM: That was something - marbles. You could even play marbles in school at recess. But after a while they cut it out. LM: Why did they do that? EM: Gambling or something. LM: Because you traded marbles back and forth. EM: You'd play marbles all summer. LM: That was like the big thing. EM: Big boys would have the fancy glass marbles. I still have a whole jar of them at home, I think. LM: These are marbles that you had when you were a kid? EM: Glass ones, beautiful ones. LM: What other games did you play, do you remember? EM: Cowboys and Indians. That was the big thing. LM: Did you like to be the cowboy or the Indian? EM: I was the youngest of most of them, I had to end up being the Indian. LM: Did they ever tie you to the stake or anything? EM: No. LM: Were they any incidents when you were a kid where you could have hurt yourself but you didn't? Something that was sort of death defying? EM: We used to ride bicycles, and my brother was older than I, and I used to sit on the handlebars. Once in a while the front axle would tighten up and it was like putting the brakes on and you'd go head over heels. LM: Where would you be when that happened? EM: We'd be on the road. LM: Like here in town? EM: Yeah. We used to skate all up and down the roads here because there wasn't that many cars. LM: On just regular roller skates? EM: Regular roller skates. We were all the time on Main Street. LM: That was a big deal wasn't it? It was the kind you put on your shoes? EM: That's right. When we were boys, we'd skate all up and down. LM: Did you ever have scooters? EM: Yeah. I had a handcar. I'd ride that back and forth. I'd have a big chest from riding that handcar. I don't know why they got me a handcar because all the other boys had a bicycle. LM: So when did you get your first bicycle? EM: My first bicycle was from my cousin Esther (who owned C&E), it was a girl's bicycle. The bicycle's then - the rims were wood. And they would warp. There used to be a man down in Berlin, Anthony Purnell, worked on bicycles and he'd straighten the wheels. I didn't like it because it was a girl's bicycle. So I got me a piece of pipe and hooked it onto the seat and made it look like a boys bicycle. LM: Did you have to do a lot of things like that? Were you always fixing things? Inventing stuff? EM: We used to make little wheels down in the ditch and let the water turn them. What do you call them - water wheels. LM: Was it just you and your brother? EM: Yeah. See we lived right beside the canal. LM: You said the water was really clear? EM: Yes, we drank it many of times. There used to be turtles in their, tarpins, all kinds of snakes, red bellied snakes, and muskrats on the banks. Everything was pure. LM: Did you ever catch those things for dinner? EM: No we never ate anything. We used to catch the turtles and there was a man in town who used to eat them. So we gave them to him. When we were kids, there used to be a man over here in Bishopville, John Bromley, he used to come up to Mr. Lynch who lived two houses down, and he'd buy warts off your hands. He'd give you a penny for your warts and they'd go away. LM: What do you mean, how did they go away? EM: I don't know. All the kids would run up to him and he'd look at them, and he'd give you a penny. Coincidence I guess. LM: When you said there was a place that you went skinny dipping, where was that? EM: Back here where the canal turns. LM: Back behind the new fire station? EM: This was before the fire station. That house there and that building was our shop. Here's Sandy Branch. It turns, see that wide spot there. LM: So it was deep enough for you to dive in? EM: Oh yes. See this was just a wagon rut here to go back here. Mr. Lynch had a place down here and also a place over here where the cabinet shop is. It was called the Meadowlands. He used to keep his cows there. He had a herd of about 3 cows at one time. And this was a little wagon path back to it and it cut through Dad's land. LM: Did you like to read when you were a little boy? EM: Oh yes. LM: Do you remember the first library in town? EM: The first library was around at Red Men's Hall. LM: Did you go there when it was there? EM: I don't know if I went there or not. During the war the water pipes burst upstairs and run down. Mr. Burl Adams was the man who lived beside of it. He found water running out into the street and a few books got wet, I think. After that I think they moved it over to the church. They had it in the church. LM: When you were growing up, what did you use to heat your house? EM: Coal. LM: Was it like a stove? EM: Coal stove. Then after a while they had it made like an oil stove today. They used to have what they called coal hot blast. LM: How did you light your house? EM: The first I can remember was oil lamps. And then Dad wired it and we had electricity. Selbyville used to have it's own electric plant. LM: Where was that? EM: It was down here by the pumping station. Then when Delaware Power and Light came through and were buying everything, they sold it. I think Berlin kept theirs and Seaford kept theirs. LM: So how old were you when this was happening? EM: I was a kid. LM: When you were a kid they brought in electricity? EM: Yes, I was a kid. LM: Did you ever have gas heat? EM: They got gas stoves after the war. Up until then they used kerosene burners. We used kerosene stove to cook on. LM: And the street lamps? EM: I don't remember anything but electric on the street lamps. LM: That was probably the first ones they had? Did people walk around at night? EM: No. People went home, except to go to the theater. LM: Was the theater open every day? EM: After the Diamond was built it was open all week. They had Monday and Tuesday shows, Wednesday night was a western and Thursday and Friday was a classic. Saturday night was another big draw. LM: Did those movies stay for several weeks? EM: No. Just Monday, Tuesday, then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You had to go up and check to see if the next film had come in. LM: You were going every couple of days to get a new film. EM: If it didn't come in, the General Manager of the whole thing would tell us when he was going out to buy new films. If I remember right the offices of the movie places were over in Washington. He'd leave a phone number of the places he'd be and if you went in the morning and the film wasn't there, you had to start on the telephone calling all these places trying to find him. If you could get up with him, he'd come straight home with the film. See, if he couldn't get a film, they relayed those films between the Globe theater and the Selbyville theater. If they had a film there, they'd try to start a half hour early and then when the first reel was out they'd run a car up here and we'd run a car back there to get the other. We'd bicycle it like that between the two theaters, using two cars. LM: They were going back and forth? EM: Between the two theaters as fast as they could. Sometimes the time didn't run right and we'd have a few minutes and of course they'd start stomping in the theaters. LM: Did they throw any tomatoes at you? EM: No. LM: Do you remember a time when it didn't show up at all? EM: Oh yeah. A lot of times. They'd run back and forth to Berlin and back. LM: So you'd eventually get one? EM: No. See if we didn't get one, they'd have a film they were going to show in Berlin. So they start a half hour earlier. We'd open at 7 o'clock, so they'd start at 6:30 and they'd get that film going. When it was over they'd rush it in a car up to Selbyville. We'd have a car back there to get the next film. Back and forth. It was nerve racking. LM: I can't believe it. EM: Berlin was 10 miles away. But that's the way they did it. LM: So it would take about half an hour to get there. EM: No, it was only 10 miles. They'd drive wide open and there weren't many cars back then. LM: So how long would it take to drive? EM: Some movies were four reels. LM: So that meant that there were four going back and forth? EM: Back and forth, it was nerve racking. LM: I can imagine. What were some of the other things you had to do in the theater? You were the manager right? EM: Yes, Mr. Omwake, the principal, he let me off an hour in the morning. So instead of taking gym, I'd come up to the theater. Of course the night before we checked all the money and the tickets, etc. I'd go to the bank and make the deposit, check the theater and make sure the theater was okay, check to see if the film was in, and check the advertisement to make sure that was right. If everything went smooth, it was smooth. We opened up at 7 o'clock at night and tried to have two-hour shows. And then in the summertime, we kids after they closed up the show around 11 o'clock, if we felt good we'd drive down to Yellow Banks. That's where all that development is on the bay in Fenwick Island and we'd go swimming. LM: So how long did you work at the theater? EM: Until I was drafted. LM: So three or four years? EM: I started when I was 15 and was drafted when I was 18. LM: So how did you get such a good job? EM: I just started and everybody was drafted, so I was the last one left. I guess they figured I was honest and everything was running smooth. Can you imagine a 17 or 18 year old kid handling that kind of money? LM: So what happened to the theater? EM: I don't know. See I was gone then. Then it closed up, and a couple of fellows from Berlin opened it but they didn't have it for very long. That was during the time that television started coming in and theaters closed up. LM: It affected all the little theaters around here? EM: All of them. But it was quite a life. LM: Sounds like it ***********SKIP IN TAPE************ EM: The first show was China Seas. Clark Gable and Jean Harlow. I remember it just as well as can be because it was the first long pair of pants I had. That night was the first time I ever wore them, the night we went and opened the theater. See, kids wore knickers to a certain age. LM: What were the favorite movie stars in town? What did everybody like to come see? EM: Comedies. The Three Stooges. We had people who would ask us when they were going to come on, let us know. In those days, when people were in the theater you could hear them laughing all down the street. People liked comedies, because the war was going on. They wanted good comedies. We didn't have any air conditioning then either. We had a great big room in back of the stage. There were cement walls and floor, and it had a big 15 HP electric motor and a great big fan. Pipes ran around it and little holes for water to spray out. We'd try to cool the theater that way. We'd go in the afternoon to turn it on, but that was the only way we tried to help. But when it got full there was nothing you could do. LM: Did you sell candy and popcorn? EM: No. We would not allow nothing in the theater. No sir. You could not bring any food in the theater. LM: Just come in and watch the movie. EM: That popcorn stuff started when the theaters started to fail. No, we wouldn't allow anything in there. We wouldn't allow any talking. If a lady came in with a baby and it started hollering and crying, you would mannerly walk up and ask her to bring it back into the lobby. LM: You just wanted to keep to so everybody could enjoy it. So it was a pretty big form of entertainment for the town. How long was the theater open, 10 or 20 years? EM: It must have been. But see the people who built it, sold it. I think it changed hands three or four times after that. The people I worked for.
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