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Permission to use or quote from this transcript must be obtained from the Selbyville Public Library. March 11, 2002 Lynn: O.k., Raymond, I don't know…were you born in Selbyville? Ray: Yes. It is my lifetime home. Lynn: O.k. Do you mind telling me when you were born? Ray: 1936 Lynn: What are some of your earliest memories as a child in Selbyville? Ray: I guess the first home I can remember living in was what is now south Main Street extended…just across the road almost from where I'm living now…simply, just the fact that at that time we knew everybody in town. We knew the families 'cause there wasn't that many. All the families knew everybody. Lynn: What was some of your…did you have brothers and sisters? Ray: I have one sister and a lot of cousins. Lynn: Was your sister older, younger? Ray: Older…one year older Lynn: Did you play with your sister a lot? Ray: Well, not a lot, but as brothers and sisters sometimes do we had different playmates, really. Lynn: What were some of the games that you played…and toys that you played with? Ray: Now, we didn't have toys at that time; we couldn't afford toys.
I don't remember. No, we… I really can not remember. Well, later
on, it was strictly softball or baseball. Lynn: Let's start with when you went to school. Where did you go to school? Ray: …at what is now Phillip Showell School…At that time, it was Selbyville 210C. Of course, the C stands for colored. Lynn: How big a school was it? Ray: It was a two-room school, one building with a big sliding door between two classrooms, making a two-room school. It went from the first grade to the eighth grade. On one side was the first through sixth, I believe, of the sliding door, and on the other side was seven and eight. Lynn: How many students were there? Ray: I would…I'm guessing now trying to remember, but I would say probably something like 40, no more than 40. Lynn: So, were there two teachers? Ray: ….two teachers. Yes. Lynn: Do you remember learning a lot? Ray: Oh, yes. At that time the teachers went and made sure you learned. You did your work. You paid attention, and they taught. We didn't have the experience of things such as lab work…we did not have, but they taught us the basic education-reading, writing, arithmetic, math, we learned. Lynn: How far did you go in that school? What grade did you… Ray: …through the eighth grade. Lynn: Then where did you go? Ray: Then, to go to the ninth grade you could go to Frankford. I did not go to Frankford; I went to Snow Hill. I moved to stay with my aunt in Snow Hill for the 9th grade because you could not go any farther than the 9th grade here unless you went to Laurel. You moved…then you had to find a way to go to Laurel…someone to take you; someone to pick you up, and transportation just wasn't there then, so I went to my aunt's in Snow Hill because that high school there was the high school that went all the way to the 12th grade. But, I stayed there for one year for 9th grade. Then they built William T. Jason High School in Georgetown. William T. Jason is now Del. Tech. Lynn: So that was the colored school for high school in Sussex County? Ray: Yes, yes…that was the only one. It was built in 1950. Before then, you did not have one. In order to finish the 12th grade, you had to go to stay at Delaware State College…on campus there. Lynn: How did you get to Georgetown? Ray: They had busses. Once they built that, they started bus routes. So, I was picked up by a school bus. Lynn: Let's go back a little bit more into your early family life. Do you remember having special chores…what was…? Ray: Oh, yes…definitely things such as getting the wood in, getting the coal in, getting wood in…they were my jobs to…I can remember well that my chore to have my dad's shoes shined by the weekend. That was a job that fell on me, and mainly to help my mother around the house. Lynn: And how long did you help her…as long as you were home? Ray: …as long as I was home. Lynn: What did your dad do? Ray: He worked for Buntings' Nurseries. He was a farmer…not a farmer, but a laborer really in the fields for Buntings' Nurseries. Lynn: …and did your mother work? Ray: She did housework. Lynn: …at home or for other people? Ray: …for other people Lynn: What were your Sundays like? Ray: Sunday was at church, and back home and just entertainment. And entertainment was anything that we could do for ourselves. We could not play ball on Sundays at the time. That's something that wasn't done??? So we just entertained ourselves. We could go visit and have fun inside the house with our other neighbors and fellow classmates and friends. Lynn: So, Sunday was a pretty big deal? Ray: Yes, oh, yes. That was the day we had to ourselves didn't have to worry about going back Monday to school…which I enjoyed going to school., so, I shouldn't say that. Lynn: Which church did you go to? Ray: …the church I'm going to now…which is Zoar United Methodist Church. Lynn: How old is Zoar? Ray: I cannot tell you offhand because before it became Zoar, it was Long's Chapel, and it was moved there from another part of town. So, it's been around for some time. Lynn: I didn't realize that…so, it's at least a hundred years old. Ray: …at least…yes. Lynn: Did you ever go to the beach? Ray: No. We could not go to the beach. Blacks could not go to the beach. Lynn: …even then? Ray…even then. There was segregation. We did not go to the beach. We did not go to Ocean City to the boardwalk…could not go to Rehoboth to the boardwalk…except on…in Ocean City for three days after Labor Day. One day was for blacks from Virginia, blacks from Maryland, and blacks from Delaware…for three days. Lynn: What was your form of transportation when you were younger...in 8th grade and younger? Ray: In eighth grade and younger…my…it was very few cars around. My family did not have one, so I went by bicycle. Lynn: What were the roads like? Ray: The roads were…I can remember when there were dirt roads, and I can remember when they paved some of them…they were either dirt or paved, but most of them were dirt. Lynn: Say around 1950 what do you think the population of Selbyville was then? Ray: I…could not tell you. Lynn: What was the downtown area like? Ray: Well, the downtown area…I can remember, I guess, about…1,2,3…about three clothing stores, I can remember two grocery store…and that was probably…and a movie. And that probably was it…and a five and ten…five and dime store…and a bank. Lynn: O.k. now, as a black person, what restrictions did you experience in town? Ray: Well, we couldn't go in the stores…we could go in the drug stores, but we could not sit at the counter and buy drinks at the counter and drink it. If you bought a drink, it was in a cup, and they would not give it to us in a glass, and we could not sit at the counter, as I said…and drink it. When we went to the movie, we had to go up in the balcony, of course, the whites went downstairs. That was segregated, and that was the way of life…when we went to a restaurant, and I can think of one that is out where Doyle's is now…the diner there where you had to go to the back door window where you were served out of the window. Lynn: Where did the blacks go to eat as a rule…if they wanted to eat out? Where did they socialize? Ray: Well, you could…at that time because of the economy and the money they had, the black people didn't eat out. You ate at home. You might visit your friends or family and had get-togethers and meals. As far as going to a restaurant and eating, there was no black restaurant in this area that I recall. Lynn: Today, I know that the black community is primarily located down route 54, near where your church is…I mean route 17, and then over next two Mountaire. Is that pretty much where they were located? Ray: Yes…pretty much where they were located then. Lynn: So, they stayed in pretty much the same area. Ray: Yes. Lynn: Did you go into the service? Ray: Yes, right after high school in 1953 I went into the army, and I was airborne. I was a military policeman…I was a paratrooper, and I stayed for three years and came out, and when I came out, I went to college. Lynn: Where did you go to school? Ray: …at Delaware State College in Dover. Lynn: Did you graduate there? Ray: I graduated there in 1960…came back and started teaching in 1960 at Phillip Showell School…my elementary school. Lynn: How did you manage to get through college? Was it expensive? Ray: Well, not then and plus the fact that I had the G.I. Bill. So, my way was paid by the G I. Bill. That paid my way through plus gave me spending money. Lynn: So how long did you teach at Phillip Showell? Ray: I stayed there for four years. I taught at Phillip Showell and Frankford Elementary School which was George Washington Carver Elementary at the time, and I taught three days at one and two days at the other, and alternated the following week, and I stayed for four years, but then because of…I think…integration, they moved…it wasn't integration…they moved the 7th and 8th grade from the Selbyville School and Frankford School to William T. Jason at Georgetown. And because of that, the music teacher, physical education teacher, which I was, 7th and 8th grade teachers…we all lost our jobs…by reduction in force. They had teachers already at Jason, so they didn't need us there, so at that point, I went to Worcester High School in Maryland. That's where I remained in Worcester County for the rest of my teaching career. Lynn: Now, was Worcester High School a public school? Ray: It was a public school, but it was also a black school…a school for blacks…for the whole county…Worcester County from Pocomoke…from the Virginia line near Pocomoke to the Maryland line up here at Bishopville. Lynn: So, when did Worcester County integrate? Ray: They fully integrated in 1970. Worcester High School was closed in 1970. Lynn: Then where did you go? Ray: Then I went to Berlin Middle school…and taught there. Lynn: What did you teach? Ray: I taught physical education. I taught there for fourteen years, then I went to Stephen Decatur High School as an administrator, and stayed there for the next 13 years. Lynn: Can you tell me some of the highlights of your career as an educator? Ray: So many…I cannot just pull one out…I cannot just pull anything out that stands out, really. It's just a matter of enjoying seeing kids that I taught be successful…to go on…well, one highlight was a professional basketball player I coached in high school…Worcester High School. I coached the first and only at the point minority black player that ever became a professional basketball player. Lynn: Who was that? Ray: Calvin Skinner Lynn: Where did he play? Ray: He played for Seattle…Bill Russell was his coach. Lynn: Well, that was…it must have been exciting. Ray: It was exciting. Lynn: When you became an administrator. Wasn't that kind of ahead of
your time as far as a black educator? Lynn: So, when you retired from Stephen Decatur what your position? Ray: I was assistant-principal…still assistant principal. In order to become principal you had to move in the county…which I chose not to do. Lynn: So you lived in Selbyville all that time. Ray: I've lived in Selbyville all my life, yes, and I commuted everyday. Lynn: Not to get too personal, but when did you meet your lovely wife? Ray: …when I first came out of service in 1956, I met her then. She was in Frankford, and her parents had a restaurant there. I met her there. Lynn: How many children do you have? Ray: I have three…I say that, of course, I became a foster parent
of one…so I have three. Ray: My son first went to Salisbury State for about three years… tried it, and he decided school wasn't for him…My daughter went to Morgan. She graduated from Morgan and became a teacher, and this is her seventh year, I believe, at Lord Baltimore in Ocean View. Lynn: Where was their pre-college education? Was it in Selbyville? Ray: …Indian River. Yes, it was Selbyville, yes. They went to Phillip Showell, Selbyville Middle, then Indian River. Lynn: So, their experiences growing up in Selbyville were a lot different from yours. Ray: Oh, yes, that was strictly during the period of integration…after integration when they went to school. Their experience would be entirely different from mine. They have no ?? what we have told them, but they have read. They have no idea what it was like during segregation here in Selbyville. Lynn: Can you talk about some of the changes that you've seen over the decades…say from the 50's in Selbyville. What have you observed about the changes in the town…both from a personal experience and say, from a political observation? Ray: Well, I just guess how the acceptance of integration slowly has evolved to where now I feel it is fully accepted, completely, whereas one time it was fought very hard at a certain council here. I recall when they had that because they wanted to fight against integration… a group of people. I can recall when the mayor…because of that… started a human relations commission back in 1960, and that was Asher B.Carey when he was the mayor. I served on that commission. So, he wanted to stop some of the problems that were happening in other cities around here. I look at the growth since then and what has happened since then…it was an unheard of a black being elected to any office here in Sussex County or Selbyville at one time, but I guess in 1981 I ran for the school board, and I was elected to the Indian River School Board and served a five-year term. I ran again for a second term and was unopposed, so I was elected again. I was defeated when I ran for a third term. So, that would have been unheard of. So, that in itself shows the change of the thinking in the political climate. Lynn: So, were you the first black to serve on the school board? Ray: …first and only. Yes. Lynn: How about in the town? Have there been any African-American people on the town council? Ray: …no…none (Have any run?) Well, I'm sure they haven't, no, and so I'm sure none have run. Lynn: Why do you think that is? Ray: Well, probably because…it could be partially because of the interest of some of the younger blacks who have other things they want to do, another could be because of reality…they know they would not be elected. I look at the fact of the volunteer Fire Department...why there has never been one there. And it could be reality that maybe a minority does not want to be a volunteer fireman, but then again, it could be because they may think they wouldn't be accepted. It's hard to tell. Lynn: The library…which you're on the board…and how long have you been on the board of the Selbyville Library? Ray: …probably since, and I'm guessing because I cannot really recall…probably since about 1993. Lynn: Well, as you know, the library is housed in the John G. Townsend Jr. Building. Did you ever have any interaction with Senator Townsend? Ray: Oh, yes, I knew him well, and one thing that always stuck out with me about Senator Townsend was during segregation. As a young child I would be walking in town…walking…I can picture walking by him a number of times. He'd have his cane, and he'd walk by, and he would always speak to you. And, that always stood out with me. He may have been preparing votes down the road; no, he wasn't…I think he was retired then. He was always a very friendly person. He'd speak to you…say, "How you doing?" and that wasn't always done with minorities during that time. Lynn: So, was he unusual in himself at that time? Ray: Well, I think so…the fact that I think he was instrumental also in helping to convince Mr. Du Pont to improve the school systems for minorities, so I think that was unusual for that time. He was an imposing figure just to see him; he was an imposing figure. Lynn: O.k. let's go back a little towards your youth in Selbyville, and you said your dad worked for Buntings' Nursery. What exactly did he do? Ray: I actually don't know. They did things such as …I guess…cultivate the fields. Once they had planted, they would bud the plants once…I'm not certain, but they would do just what they had to do 'cause the nursery was a big industry, and they would grow shrubs, of course, to sell and ship throughout the country…so, whatever it took to grow those plants. Lynn: How long did he work for them? Ray: Oh, he worked for them over forty years. Lynn: I had heard once that Buntings' Nursery supplied all the seed plants or something like that for Sears…do you remember that? Ray: I did not know that, but I hear that they. I did not know that they supplied seed; I know they shipped plants throughout the country. Lynn: Well, you always hear so much about the strawberry industry in Selbyville. What do you remember about that, anything? Ray: I can remember when they used to take the plants down to where town offices… down there in that area…to the train station there, and I can recall shipping them out…I can remember a tomato factory being down there, where they would can tomatoes, but the strawberries…the largest part of the strawberry industry was before my time, I think. Lynn: Did your father retire? Ray: Well, when he was not able to work because of his age and health conditions, he had to stop working. There was no retirement benefit from Bunting's Nursery. Lynn: So how did your family manage? How did your mother and father get along? Ray: Well, since we were grown at that time, I was…when he stopped working… I was grown, my sister was grown, and my mother was still working, so we all pitched in and made sure that we took care of each other. Lynn: So when you married your wife, you moved back into Selbyville into a home? Ray: Yes. Lynn: …near your parents? Ray: No, where I'm living now. When I got married, we bought the house where we are now, which is only about a mile away. Lynn: You could go to your parents at any time? Ray: Yes. Lynn: What were some of your first jobs? Did you ever have a job in Selbyville? …part time? Ray: I guess my first job was at H & H Poultry plant, and that was mainly because they didn't have McDonald's then. Of course, they didn't have a Arby's then, so you worked in the poultry plant during the summer. I can recall working…well, that's just where I worked each summer…in the poultry plant…H & H in Selbyville, Showell Plant in Showell, and I worked at a poultry plant in Lewes. I worked at one in Frankford…so I was in poultry plants in the summer, and down at the beach. I did work down at the beach. Lynn: When was that? Ray: …during the summer…once again at hotels during the summer Lynn: Is that when you were in your teens? Ray: Yes, when I was in my teens and in high school. Lynn: What did you do at the poultry plant? Ray: I was in the packing room and different jobs, such as taking…I can recall one I liked most was taking chickens off the line…I'm sorry…taking chickens out of the buckets and hanging them on the scales to weigh them. The scales …?? drop them and move over the bucket and drop them in the ones with the right weight…whether it was a four pounder, three and a half pounder. Lynn: Well, at this point they are already dead? Are they already dead? Ray: Yes, dead. Lynn: and are they de-feathered? Ray: Yes. When they come to the packing room, they were de-feathered. But now, how they do it now…I have no idea. I'm sure everything is changed completely. Lynn: Well, I've never seen the process at all. Ray: First thing, they would bring them in, and the live hangers would hang them alive…take them out of the coops and hang them on shackles live. Then they would go to killers, who killed them by hand by taking a knife and cutting the throat. Then, they would go through scalding hot water where they were scalded, then they would go through a de-feathering machine, which would beat the feathers off of them. Then the workers would pull off the rest of the feathers, and someone would then open them up with a knife and take the guts out, and … Lynn: This would have been in the 1950's? Ray: It would have been in the early '50's…probably. It would have been between '49…'48 to '53. In fact, I worked there between '50 and '53-my high school years. Lynn: O.k. then what age were you when you went in service? Ray: I was 17. Lynn: Did you see active duty? Ray: Active duty? Oh, you mean…war…action. No…no action. I stayed in the United States the whole time. Lynn: Where were you stationed? Ray: Oh, boy, you name it, and I was there. I was in Georgia; I was in North Carolina; I was in Kentucky; I was in Louisiana; I was in Texas. I moved around. Lynn: How did you feel when you came back to Selbyville where you'd lived all your life…except for… Ray: I felt good because of the places I had been while I was in service. I found none that I liked better than Delaware. I thought Delaware was a good place to be… a good place to…that's where I wanted to make my home. Lynn: What did you like about Delaware that brought you back. I mean, can you remember the thoughts you had? Ray: I guess it wasn't overcrowded. I did not like the cities, and I was stationed around cities while in the service, and I did not like to be around cities. I wanted open space; I wanted to live out in open space, and that's what we have here is open space, really…and I love… everything moves at its own slow pace. That's what I like. Lynn: How do you feel about Selbyville now…I mean the changes that occurring in town? Ray: I'm very happy with it. I think it took a long time for them to really decide to let people come in to develop the town, business come in, but they have started the industrial park, which was great. If they had not started that, I still had a concern because one time we could not grow. I felt personally that family's that were here and established that wanted to maintain the wage level for the workers did not want other businesses to come in, so they pretty well froze them out. I guess as time goes by things have to change and it has. Both industry has really grown and the industrial park…I don't know how many workers they have there, but it's…things just change. They have a McDonald's here…they have Arby's here. So things have changed. Lynn: How big was H& H Poultry when you worked there? How many employees did they have? Ray: I could not tell you. (…a hundred?)…at least a hundred if not more. Lynn: I was talking to someone the other day, and they told me there were fourteen hundred employees on the line at Mountaire now. Ray: It would be nowhere near that many. It was quite an operation…so, when you go through the whole sales…and the different departments. It would be well over a hundred, I think. Lynn: Do you remember when Mountaire moved to town? Ray: Yes. I have no idea what year it was, but I certainly remember when Pepper's finally sold out to Mountaire. Lynn: Do you remember which decade? Ray: No, I can't. Lynn: Do you think that made a big change? Did you see change start occurring when a large corporation bought a small family operation? Ray: I did not know…I can't say that I…well, more job opportunities opened up because they enlarged the operation, but I did not see any other benefits because the pay stayed pretty much the same. It just went along with the ongoing hourly wage that was mandated by the government, I think. It pretty well stayed that way. Lynn: Do you see…let me say this. At what time do you feel integration occurred commercially in Selbyville? When you could do anything a white person could do as far as entering stores and using facilities, etc. Ray: I'm trying to think when they passed the Public Accommodation Bill…that would have been in the '60's. That's when they really…that's when it opened up…the only thing that really had to open actually was the drugstore. We could always go into the stores and buy clothes, you could go into any other commercial businesses they had here. So, I guess it was the drugstore you could not go in…and you could not sit at…one, we had two drugstores. I'd better correct that…one you could…one you could. One was on one side of the movie and the other one was on the other side of the movie. One you could go in and you could sit at the counter, could sit in the booth, and you could be served there. One you could not. Lynn: So, that changed. Ray: Well, that changed after Public Accommodations…had to by law. Lynn: Growing up in Selbyville then did you feel that you always could get what you needed as far as things you needed to buy-food, clothing, did you always do all your shopping and getting everything in Selbyville? Ray: We got what we needed, not what we wanted, but what we needed, we could get, yes. What we could afford, of course, money was hard. I can recall my father's paycheck being $17 a week at one point. But, then, $17 at that point could buy a lot more than $17 can now, of course, but still that wasn't much money. Lynn: Let's try to talk about historical Selbyville. You remember any particular events that occurred that you think had special importance in Selbyville's history…say the election of the Senator to the federal Senate…now, that would have been … Ray: That would have been before me. Yes. Lynn: You remember the big birthday party then they had for him when he turned 86. Were you around then? Ray: I'm sure I must have been, but that would not have…it would have been something that I probably wouldn't have known about. Lynn: Well, let's talk about leaders in your community. Who were the leaders in your community…meaning the black community? Ray: Well, they would have been the leaders of a church…plus the leaders of the black community that had as a board of trustees for the school because the school did have trustees. Each one of the black schools had black trustees in the black community. We looked upon them as our leaders. Lynn: Was there anyone in particular that stood out for you? Ray: Well, I don't know whether they stood out, but I remember well, Harley Derrickson, Mr. Harley Derrickson, who was a…one of…and he was also the chauffeur for Senator Townsend. He was a leader. Lynn: So, what did he do as a leader? Ray: Just the fact that he was a trustee of the school. He was the one that we knew made the rules for the schools. To us, that made us think that he was a leader. He carried himself well, and he was a leader of the church. I think of Mr. Ephraim Mumford. For years, he was the lay leader of Zoar Church, and I had just as much respect and fear of him as I did my father. Lynn: So, we were talking about Ephraim Mumford? Ray: Yes, he was one of the leaders of the community, really. During election times, he'd be one of the ones that would help you get the vote out-the black vote out. They would carry people to the poles…he was a leader of the community. Clyde Smith, later on, was a trustee of our schools. He was a trustee when I was hired to work at Phillip Showell School, and he also, later on after Mr. Derrickson became Senator Townsend's chauffeur. Lynn: I think it's unusual that someone who grew up in Selbyville all their lives, and especially with being from a minority part of the population, went on to get a college degree and taught as a professional for so many years. Wasn't that kind of unusual for your age group? Ray: From my age group? ...Well, yes. I guess…I never made a count, but at one time I did start to look at it, and we have had at least for a small town, small community, we've had at least fifteen minorities that have gone on to college from Selbyville. I guess fifteen doesn't sound like many, but for a small community like Selbyville, and a small black community, that is a great number, considering what they had to go through. I can…before I went to college, probably about four had gone before I went, and then I can think of about three more from Selbyville that was in while I was in, and I think after me at least another ten or twelve have gone, which is amazing. Lynn: Do you attribute that to anything? Ray: I attribute that to the parents here, the grandparents that were here, the beliefs and the things they instilled on their children. The placed value on education and with what they went through, I know what I went through, and I wanted my children to have something better, and some people who grew up with me wanted the same thing for their children. So, they pushed that. I attribute it to the pushing of the parents and the grandparents. Lynn: Do you think parents today are still that…? Ray: I don't…I don't think the same drive is there. That is one thing that the black community lost with integration. They lost that personal touch with that minority teacher who knew the hardships out there and knew the value of an education-what you had to have to have a good life. They knew that, and they pushed us. They told us this. I had high school teachers who just instilled upon us, and beat…and drummed in our head that you've got to get a good education so you can move on and have a good life. If you don't want to…and it's nothing wrong with going to work in the chicken factory. It has to be done, but if you don't want to do that the rest of your life, you have to prepare yourself for something else, and they drummed that into us. I'm not sure that…in fact, I know it's not done now as a whole to minority kids, but we were the only ones they saw, so we're the ones at the time that was drummed into our heads was what you got to do. I knew personally that I did not want to go to chicken factory everyday and work five days…in fact it was six days 'cause they were working on Saturdays then. So, that's my life. I knew what I wanted, and I…that's why I went in service, really, because I knew my parents couldn't afford to send me to college. I could not make enough money to go. I was working and the wages they were paying then, but I knew about the G.I. Bill. So, I said, "There's the G. I. Bill there, if I go in service, stay for three years, come out, they will pay my way." Lynn: When you were working for the chicken factory on the line. What was the proportion of black people on the line? Ray: Oh, the greater majority of the poultry workers were black, I would say. Lynn: …and how about now? Ray: Hispanics. Lynn: …mostly Hispanics? Ray: That's what I understand. Lynn: So, how does the influx of the Hispanics population over the past ten years affected the black community in Selbyville? Ray: I don't think there has been any effect. The jobs are still there for the ones who want to work, I think. I think they are still hiring, and if you want to work, you can work. So, I don't think…It's not as if I would say that they came in taking jobs away from anybody. That's not been the case. I think the jobs are still there. I think they're doing something that others don't want to do? Lynn: So, where does the black community go now for jobs? Ray: Probably you see quite a few working at the restaurants because now you can go to the beach and work in the restaurants. You can go to the fast food places to work, and the other jobs industries are open for you. Some of the jobs that I had no chance of working in…they're open now. You have the same opportunities now to get the non-skilled jobs that the whites could get, at one time. I didn't have the opportunity myself. Then, my children had the opportunity. Lynn: Of these gentlemen and other people you grew up with did you have a particular mentor that guided you through your… Ray: No…no, well, I had one. I had one that I…Joseph Mitchell,
Sr.…Joe Mitchell, Sr. Lynn: Where was his shop? Ray: It was right at his house, which was down on 17…right in the neighborhood. Lynn: O.k. So it was like a bike shop? Ray: Yes, yes, like a bike shop. It was just two-doors down from me, and we…a number of fellows spent a greater part of our day just down there with him just watching him work and listening at him talk. He could pick and choose…he could do anything. The man could do anything, and I thought it was amazing. Lynn: Were there a lot of black people that had small businesses in town? Ray: No. He'd been the only one I could name. I always felt that was a big difference between the minorities here and in Berlin. I went to Maryland to work. So many of them had their own businesses. Here, it wasn't the case here because it was very limited. Lynn: Let's talk about when you served on the school board. What changes did you see occur in the school system primarily as it affected Selbyville while you were on the board.? Ray: What changes did I see occur? (Big changes…) Well, I…I can't say any that just affected Selbyville. I just saw the school district…I just feel that education became better because of the choice of some of the superintendents and some staff members we hired and improved the schools. I think, while I was on they made the decision to build a new Selbyville Middle School. I cannot pinpoint any one thing…any one, large major change that was made while I was there. Lynn: Well, do you feel like the addition of the middle school…you know, the new school, and the movement from the old building…and then the bringing in of the Arts' school to the old building…do you feel those were positive changes for Selbyville? Ray: I certainly do. I see a problem with it, and the problem with it was that we built the new middle school on the foundation, on the basis that some parents felt strongly that the old school was a danger because of the chicken plant, the smell there…the odor there…the danger of the chemicals they had there. So, based upon that, we made a decision to close that school and build a new middle school, but then come back later on another eight years later, five years later…whatever it was…to reopen the school, bring more people in, I asked myself, "Is that danger still out there? If there was a danger; it is still there. If it wasn't a danger, then we mislead the people to follow a group of people, which was from the beach area who came out of the cities, I think, who did not want their kids to be there next to that plant. If we mislead people, ????, if it wasn't needed. Although it was needed because updated school, a modernized school, but yet this school was unsafe, then why is it safe now? So, that is something always stuck in my mind. Lynn: You do feel that there has been improvements in the school system over the past fifteen years or so? Ray: Oh, yes, oh, yes. Definitely. Lynn: …for everybody? Ray: …for everybody throughout the district. Lynn: O.k. Tell me a little bit about your job now for Senator Henry? Ray: O.k. Margaret Rose Henry. But it's not just for her; I'm up under…she brought me up there, but I am there for any of the senators for anything they may want, if they need to research a bill, find a bill to bring up to them. I may be asked to do that. I may be asked to go around and get signatures. I may be asked to help stamp bills, to put a number…all bills are numbered. I may be asked to help stamp bills, stamp a bill once they assigned a number to it. So, then again I may be asked by Sen. Henry to go see one of the other secretaries, and let her know that she wants to see them about something, or she needs something from them. So, I'm just there to…at the will of the Senate. Lynn: So, are you an assistant to the Senate? Ray: No, we're called "pages." Lynn: Oh, O.K. for the state legislature. Ray: …for the senate…for the state legislature, I guess, but I'm assigned to the senate cause I ??? by the senators. The representatives can do the same thing. Some of them can bring up according to their positions. Some can bring up one; some can bring up two, some can bring up three, some don't have enough seniority to bring up any. Lynn: ….after you retired in Georgetown, can you tell me about that? Ray: Well, after retiring out of Maryland in 1997, I took off for a year in 1998. I guess the last of '98 the Indian River School District wanted to start their own Intensive Learning Center for special ed kids with behavioral and emotional problems. I guess they didn't really want to start it, but the school that was taking care of that was at Sussex Tech. Sussex Tech stopped the program simply because they did not know how many teachers to hire because they didn't know how many kids would be coming. If they hired a teacher and the kids did not come, they still had to pay that teacher. So, they dropped that program. They were taking kids throughout the county: Indian River School District and Cape School District from Woodbridge and Seaford and throughout the county. So, it fell back to individual districts to provide their own program for behavior kids with emotional problems. Indian River said they would run a program for both Indian River and Milford School District. So, Darlene St. Peter, who is supervisor of Special Education, along with some more workers that worked at the school…right now I can not think of the name of the program when it was at Sussex Tech…a couple of them plus a special ed teacher here in the district got together, and they wrote a program and decided they could run the program themselves…wrote a program for working with these kids, which they did, and the Richard Allen building was open, and, of course, it was the black high school at one point. Later on, it became an elementary school, but they closed it up when they built the new Georgetown Elementary School. They no longer had a need for it. So, that building was available…they started the program there in September, but they realized they didn't have anybody with any administrative experience who knew how to operate a school with a budget and everything. I got a call one day from the assistant superintendent…he was an administrative assistant…Earl Savage, with a proposition that he had just the ideal thing for me, so we talked about it, and I told him, "Yes," that I would do that for a couple of years to get it off the road. That's what I did. I gave them what expertise I had to administer the school for a couple of years to get it going. At that time, another program that was in operation in Milford…that was closing up. Somebody else was starting that program. So, another fellow there that operated that program…Walter Smith. He was a very capable person, and he was out of a job, so I…it was an ideal time for me just to leave and give him a chance to come in which I did Lynn: Were their kids in this program…were there many from Selbyville? Ray: I won't say "many," but we had in Selbyville. We had
about four from Selbyville. Ray: Well, almost all of them…all of them had emotional problems, and most of them were medicated. They were tied in with social services. Most of them tied in with juvenile services because of misbehavior problems either having at school or at home, and they had been through the court system. They just had emotional problems. Lynn: Just to wind up I'd like to talk about what are some of the problems you see for kids in Selbyville now in growing up here and educationwise? What do you think are some of the biggest problems are that we need to deal with as a community? Ray: I think the lack of…concern by parents, I think, and how we deal with that, I don't know. I think we've got to the point now where we have kids having kids. We've gone through, I guess, the experience where kids had kids, and they themselves had a poor educational background, and they cannot help their own kids. They do not push their own kids because they weren't pushed themselves. So, that's something that is ongoing. It's a fact that if a girl has a baby… usually at age 13… probably, and she has a daughter. It can not…????? for that daughter to have a child at an early age because it just perpetuates itself. And…I don't see how you break that cycle. How do you make people, once again, realize the value of an education, and I see that as a problem. I see the working…the economic condition where the parents have to work…have to work so late, and with the homework these kids have to do now, they can not do it on their own. They have to have help at home. Kids can not do it on their own; they have to have help from their parents, and if the parents aren't there for the kids because they have to work, or they aren't there because they aren't able academically themselves to help the kids, the kid's going to fail. The kid's not going to make it. That's the problem I see now. We have got to have…and develop somewhere… an after-school program where the kids that fall in a certain range of skills have to go to. So, the parents aren't there to help them. Lynn: So, in other words, you think Selbyville would probably benefit from having more things for kids to do after school both in the school and outside the school? Ray: …having educational programs after school-tutoring programs after school. They need more of those. Lynn: and would you say this is across ethnic lines? Ray: Yes, yes. Primarily it is probably Hispanics and the blacks. The information and opinions expressed in this interview are the remembrances and recollections of the person interviewed as they remember them. Authenticity of dates, names of persons and places may be in question on some points. |
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