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Shahan: If I can get you to give me your full name and address and we'll continue. Biggers: Charles Biggers. 2417 Cedar Avenue, The Cedars. Shahan: You were telling us about late raising livestock on the property and when did you say you started with sheep and in particular, here at Greenbank Mill? Biggers: It was forty years ago. Shahan: How much pasture land did you have at that point? Biggers: I had two cows, three horses and we had the hay here. Roy had sheep; he had them in the barn here. Shahan: Oh, he kept sheep in the mill? Biggers: Yeah. Shahan: In the basement? Biggers: Yeah, where the engine was. They was down there and you had the door went down and he had the sheep in there. Sometimes he would bring 'em up and tie 'em to a post if it looked like high tide. Shahan: How many did he have? Biggers: I guess he had four, five ewes and the lambs that were produced and I was shearing sheep here, his sheep and my sheep, on the back porch here and I had a pain and had to quit. Went home and had to go to a hospital at twelve o'clock at night. I had a ruptured appendix; so, I came out of that pretty good. This hill out here, they used to have mill horses here and they used to cut that hill. Roy used to tell me about cutting the hill with a mowing machine, that was in the nineteens. I used to clean out the races when they had the high tides and all. We kept the, take the chunks away from here. Shahan: Clean the racks out or? Biggers: Clean the racks and the mill race, too, and the creek where the big one come in, we had to clean that. They was cleaned every other day or so. Shahan: How did they clean out the races? Biggers: Why, you'd get that water out and raise the gates, drop the gate out here, and the one that come in the mill here and just fill it up with water and they would open, shut the one up here; open this one, let it gush out and then shut that one then raise it again and fill it up, you know. It would take out everything dumped it in the creek. Shahan: So, basically, you were using the flow going out the spillway to flush out the system. Biggers: Yeah, what come in. Shahan: You didn't actually do any dredging _______________(talkover) Biggers: No. Shahan: Well, at some point in time, they did. I just didn't know if that was when you _____________(talkover) Biggers: Roy kept it pretty well cleaned down. They were, he was slick on that and, you know --- Shahan: What kind of stuff did he do to keep it clean? I mean, what were the things that he was doing? Biggers: Raise it up and let the big floods roll. He'd shut the gates here and raise that one and keep the one up there and that would give a helluva ---- Shahan: He'd use the floodwater. Biggers: Yeah, they didn't do much. If they got branches or something trees, they took a (pole?) and hook and pull them out. They had a couple cows here. They had coon dogs in the cellar. Shahan: Kept the dogs in the cellar? Biggers: Coon dogs. Shahan: What kind of coon dogs? Biggers: Just regular coon dogs. Shahan: Blue tick or --- Biggers: No, black and tan. I had a couple blue ticks down here. I give him one that was a blue tick. I was in here. I'd take the truck and unload feed out of the cars and bring 'em over and put 'em in the mill. If there was any large quantity to go up to some farm or something, I just put it up and we set aside for their own truck and take it up. Shahan: When you were getting feed, did you just bag feed coming in or bulk feed? Biggers: Bag feed, always bag. Shahan: Did he ever get grain in from the railroad? Biggers: Not loose grain. Rock salt and stuff like that, he'd have a car come in and we'd put it down here. Then, he had these elevators and the grain the (drub?) sack come in the farmers brought in and all, we'd drop it in a chute out along here. I don't remember where it was now. It was in here. And it would go down the cellar and then - where was the office at? Shahan: The office is right over there. Biggers: Where they would wait? Shahan: Just to the right of that. Actually, it's still there. Biggers: He had a thing that dropped the grain out there and then run it down and then they had the cups that run it from down here up and took the grain up to the third floor and that's where they stored it. Then they grind it down through the things. Shahan: Do you know how much capacity the mill had to hold grain? Biggers: I only looked at it and said, "My God!" Farmers used to bring their grain in and I used to bring grain down if I wanted something ground and he'd throw it in there and grind it up and I'd take it home. Shahan: What did it cost you to get something ground? Biggers: I never paid. I'd say, "How much do I owe you Roy?" "Nothing, you earned it." Shahan: And you did work down here some, then, too? Biggers: Yeah, just to help out. If I didn't have a job or wasn't working
at (Balanca?) or down Angerstein's or someplace or Electric Hose and
Rubber I was down there. We lived down on the highway then in a house
my uncle had, a cousin, and my wife used to walk out here and I had
my hounds and across the road where Happy Harry's is. The barn was in
front of the Happy Harry's between that and the road and the house sat
back by the creek more up on the hill and that's where I kept my horses,
cows, had sheep there and chickens and then I had to move from there.
Roy says, "Don't worry about it. Put 'em here." Biggers: Work horses. Shahan: Work horses. Did you do stuff for other people? Biggers: Just for myself. My son had a riding horse; I'd (bought?) him a riding horse. This is one I had here and that's when she was a yearling and I got her --- Shahan: Can I take this out and look at it? Biggers: Yes, I guess you can take it out; it's fragile. It was when the barn was still there, down on the highway. That's the barn and the house was -- Shahan: That's the barn right over here that was right up Greenbank Road? Biggers: No, down to Brack-Ex, on the old Bracken farm. Bracken, himself, lived there at one time. It was the Bracken farm. Shahan: This is great. Biggers: She's a year old and she's standing on a watering trough. Watering trough is turned upside down and I taught her to get up on that and stand. That's where the girl across the road, I don't know whether she's still living or not, and she come over and took this picture and brought it over and give it to me. That was years and years ago. I don't know whether she's still living. Shahan: What kind of work did you do with your horses? Biggers: Oh, on the farm down there, I cut hay and planted corn and
had the pasture, mowed the pasture. The front field I got hay off of
it, except where the Tasty Ferd whatever that little diner is out in
front. Well, that was all field up towards the church was the big house,
(Lovell's?) house. That was the original house for this place and I
lived in the farm house. Shahan: You mentioned earlier that you had a bunch of coon dogs. Did you do a lot of coon hunting in the area? Biggers: Yes. Roy and I used to. I'd bring dogs down here and he lived up - you know where he lived? - he'd come down and we'd go through here, up the creek, clear up in back to the other road back there, what's it? Shahan: Faulkland? or a lot further than that? Biggers: On up to, what is it, 49, 48? The one that's Lancaster. Shahan: Oh, okay, yeah. All the way back up in there? Biggers: Yeah, and when we was on the farm, my wife and I used to take the dogs and go up the creek across from the Masonic Home, in back of the Masonic Home, and on up to the Lancaster Pike, then come down the other creek, the other side of the hospital. Shahan: Mm, okay. Was it good hunting through this area? Biggers: Man, yes! We used to get 'em up here. Shahan: You also mentioned hay. I know Roy Magargal sold a lot of hay. Did he also sell straw and all, too? Biggers: Yeah, baled. He had it baled; bought it baled and brought it in there. He'd get a small load or we'd take a truck out. If needed some in a hurry, we'd take it out to one of these farms and get three or four dozen bales, whatever he could put on the truck. Shahan: Where did he store it? Biggers: In the mill. Shahan: In the like the stone portion next door or in here? Biggers: I guess, it was that side. This was all millstones, mill wheels here. There was chutes and belts and they had tin cups on it. Shahan: Elevator belts. Biggers: Yeah. They went and took the grain up. The grain would come in here. Shahan: I know that there was a chute that went to the basement. Did that come straight in the front door or did it come in one of the windows or ----? Biggers: I think it come in the window, (and down?). They dumped it and then took it up to the (front?). There was one here that went upstairs and it took out the flour and stuff when they give it the second grinding or clean it. Shahan: Like the midlands purifier. Biggers: He, it went up there and they stored it up in the third floor, the whole grain. It was unloaded down here and shoot it up there to the third floor in bins. Then, as he needed it, he'd let it come down. Shahan: Mostly corn, or did he do some wheat and all? Biggers: Wheat, flour, cornmeal, Shahan: Barley. Did he do any barley? Shahan: You did? Did he use a screw jack to do that, the regular crane? Biggers: Yeah. He had a crane there he turned this way and then it had a big clip that went onto the wheel and you could pick it up; and when you got it up, you could flip it over. Shahan: How long did it take him to sharpen one of those? Biggers: Oh, he done that in, I'd say, a week. Shahan: Did he do it with a hammer and chisel? or did he do it with a mill pick? Biggers: Well, he had both, but some of them he had - it's according to how bad they were or how he had to do it whether he'd use something lighter. Shahan: Did he use the chisel when he needed to take out big cuts? Biggers: Well, I don't know, it was like a chisel. They unloaded most of their grain back this way. Some here and then they had a chute. I guess it was about the end of this wall going out that had a place and that would take in corn and stuff in this part. The grains that you made flour was put back here and the feed grains was put on this side. Shahan: Okay, so the west side was mostly for feed and the flour would be on the east side. Biggers: Yes. It was, you couldn't have, you didn't want the two grains mixed up there or you'd say, "Look at the mildew in this!" or something. Shahan: What other kind of jobs did you help Roy out on in the mill? Biggers: Taking up stones, anything he had to do he could give me a foreword on he'd say, "Charlie, can you come down on such and such a day or night?" If you couldn't make it in the day, he'd come down in the night and put a lantern up there and flip it by lantern light. Shahan: What kind of hours did Roy work? What was the schedule like he had for a day? What time did he start? Did he take any regular breaks or anything? Biggers: He had a little stove in that office. The little stove like that and he put his soup on top of that and a sandwich - he'd put it on a wire and stick it over and get it toasted up a little. Hours, he worked long hours, especially when he's (dreaming?), you know, the grain and all. Sometimes I'd come down here and work till dark, you know, just helping. He had long hours. This old fella up here - I forget his name - he was him and Roy was sort of in it. I can't think of his last name. Shahan: Hamel? Biggers: Hamel. He was a buddy and he had the guts. They'd take and
load up the wagons and pack 'em in the shed and then early morning,
daylight, they'd hook up the horses and start, go 'way cross country
to deliver feed and, of course, when they had the trucks, they'd throw
the bags on - zoom. Course, with the horses and all, they had and his
farm where he was raised on was top of the hill where the old Magargal
place was - the other side of Hercules, up on top of the hill and that's
where he was raised at, born and raised, I guess. He put his young wife
there. He was quite a Romeo in his younger days. He had the best horses
around, one driving horse and he Shahan: When did they switch over from using wagons to trucks? When did he get a delivery truck, do you know? Biggers: Oh my God, I don't know. Shahan: I'm assuming it was fairly late from the way you're talking. Biggers: The horse and wagon was run right up until they got a fairly good truck. I don't know even what - well, it was Chevys. I don't know the other trucks. Chevys, I guess there was a model T shoved in there somewhere. But then they had the mill horses. They used to put them on that hill there for grazing and they had them in this barn here. They would hook them up, two, and at times when it was bad, they had to use four. They had them on the farm or something. Shahan: They normally only kept two here? Biggers: Yes, up in that barn. Everything was kept in that barn. The workhouse had a berry patch across the creek here where they have the parking lot. There was raspberries, blackberries. Shahan: I'm told Roy liked dandelion wine and he made his own dandelion wine. Biggers: Yes, yes. Mmm smack, smack, it was good. We had great times.
I'd come down here and take off with whole truck with some feed in it
and came down pretty near Christiana and sometimes somebody in Christiana
wanted a bag of feed, drop it off down there. Biggers: Oh, Lordy. Around here at some of the duPont places, Mrs., oh God. She lived right on the Kennett Pike and she had the horses and ponies - the old duPont that owned Fair Hill was their father. Shahan: I'm not familiar, but I don't follow the duPont family. Biggers: Yeah, well. Billy duPont, William duPont, he owned the farm up there and she had it, and he had Belleview. I knew stuff went to Belleview. And her, and I forget that lady who was Hopkins? no, she lived down a lane right up off that road in past the new school in and around and hits the Centerville Road and she had a big farm down there, I can't remember her name. They had it and they used to haul manure from here and the sidings up at, God damn, it's awful to get old and can't think, oh Greenville, yeah, Greenville, the siding up there where Shields was. There used to be tracks there and they would bring carloads of manure from Philly and all around and these guys would pay, I don't know how, I guess, they loaded up the cars and sent the cars to them and they paid for 'em to get rid of the manure because they would shovel it out in wagons and haul it in the fields. Old Frank Springer told me that he had a traction engine and he pulled two wagons, sometimes three, up that back road and into the lane and then they would hook the horses to 'em and take 'em to the fields and spread 'em. God, what they did for work! Guys would say "Hell with that we'll get it out of a bag." Shahan: What else can you tell me about Roy Magargal? Biggers: He was a sport. He went to, before he married, he went to all the fairs and he thought nothing of going to West Chester, pick 'em up early and drive to West Chester and see a show or something and drive back. That horse come home, I think, more than he was drove. Shahan: What about stories? I hear he used to be a great storyteller. Biggers: Oh, yeah, yeah. He knew everything from here to the state line, going and coming, and down this way clear down to Christiana, Bear Station, I guess, 'cause he delivered grain and he had a business. I've seen three and four people working in this mill when there's grinding and there's making flour, it'd come down the chutes and then their bags. They used to load flour on railroad cars out here and ship it. It was a fairly big operation. Shahan: Who all worked at the mill? Can you remember some of the people? Biggers: No, old Darlington Flinn, he sort of was into it. He owned all that ground from here to up around Prices Corner and down to the railroad. While he was about my age, he lived down on the next road down that goes through and there's a few houses there and he lived on that. Not this road here, but the next one. Shahan: Duncan Road? Biggers: Yeah. He drove truck and worked part-time or whenever he could.
If he wasn't working in the mill down here well he'd be working with
Roy. He was always on the go. He could set and get talking to ya about
the places he had been with the horse and wagon. And you'd say, "My
God, I wonder he didn't drive the horse to death!" But he kept
care of his horses. He told me about one that he lost, his favorite
horse, and she had blood poison or something and he actually cried when
she died. Because he said, "Charlie, that horse was part of me.
I could go to sleep, wind or wrap the lines around the whips and put
my feet up on the dashboard and, say, go to sleep. She'd stop and -
when they went up to the farm at the top of the hill - she'd stop, (whinny)
shake the buggy. Okay." He'd get out, unhook her, and put her in
the barn. Shahan: Do you remember his wife? Biggers: Oh, yeah. Shahan: What can you tell me about her? Biggers: I knew a lot about her when I was young. I would go up there and get some plants from Roy for my garden; he had a greenhouse up there. Shahan: Oh, he did? I didn't realize that. Biggers: A little one, about across this room, Shahan: About twenty-four foot long, then. Biggers: This wide, you know. He started things, kept it going all winter and then he would bring his plants down here and start 'em or rd go up there and get a couple tomato plants or something. "Go on, take it with you." I said, "Roy, I only want a couple earlies to get me started, so I could say, I got a tomato." She was a nice, strict, pretty lady. People who lived over in the house here. He lives down the road here, if he's still living in about the first, second, third, third or fourth house down. If he's still living, he's down there. I know his name as well as my own. Oh, yes. But his sisters, well they all lived over here till their parents died, and the girls lived here. I don't know whether the last girl that lived there she, when they sold the house, she moved up in Brack-Ex. I can't remember the name now. She was the last down here. The sale there, I come from work and drove up and parked there and they were pretty near all gone. Fenimore or Hilley had the sale. My wife was down here and the neighbors still and I came down in the pickup and stopped. I said, "Did you get the freezer?" "No." I said, "Well, did they sell it?" "No." I went over and asked, "Did you sell it?" "No." And they went in there and he said, near everybody left, "What do you want for this freezer?" And so he put a price on it and I think we got it for twenty-six dollars. We got rid of it, oh, I guess, six years ago. We had it all of that time. Well, the other people they didn't use it much and I guess they thought it wasn't working and we bought it and I got filthy. I put it in the, Mac helped me load it up and I took it up to the house and unloaded it. He said, "You aren't going to put that in catch, that kitchen, you're going to break your neck if you put that in that kitchen." So, I set it out there and cleaned it up and all. He said, "When you get it cleaned up, give me a holler and I'll help you put it in." We put it in that kitchen and that thing'd run and run and run. It begin to miss, sometimes it wouldn't freeze the ice, and we began to talk about, "Hey, that thing is going to go." We had a friend who worked on them and he'd come up and he said, "My God, Charlie, what are you going to do, keep this thing forever?" I said, "Well, it's working." He says, "It's going to quit (finger snap) like that and it's going to be a Sunday when you can't do anything." I had to go once or twice I had to go up here to the corner and get a cake of ice to put in and we took it out and got another one in and we just bought a freezer about five years ago and I guess it was when we moved that 'un out. Shahan: As I understand, Roy that was also a veteran. Did he ever talk about that? Biggers: No, I never heard of his army career. All I heard was this
mill and the farm and the coon hunting and his greenhouse and garden
up there. He was, I think he grew some stuff in the parlor and set out
because he, Shahan: What about flooding? How often was there flooding down here? Biggers: Oh, man. I seen this covered over in this parking lot area, come up and over the road here, in the mill. That's the reason they kept stuff that wasn't moving very good, well they had a couple benches around here that was put up higher, you know, and under here, it didn't get in here so much. It come up over this bridge, here over the road down here. Shahan: Were you ever in either one of the little houses that say along the road? Biggers: Oh yeah. There was all colored people. Shahan: Can you tell me anything about the houses or the people that lived in them? Biggers: There was two or three houses, I just forget which, and they were only sort of somebody that worked in the mill lived in them and there was a colored fella was in here and she cooked for Roy. She'd bring him up goodies and all and he'd give her some feed, a bag of feed for her chickens. Across the creek and down where they come in for that parking lot and train station, there was a colored guy down there and he had a garden in there and he was there and when he moved out they tore the house down. That's after this new outfit took it over. There wasn't no railroad station or nothing there, just tracks coming through and they had a double track there where they put the feed cars, so that if they stayed there for two days they wouldn't interfere with the lines going up, 'cause it was a main drag back then. Shahan: Was there ever a blacksmith working here that you know of`? Maybe a farrier? Biggers: No. The closest one - Hackendorn, where was his place? Oh, he worked out of his truck, mostly, old model T. He went around; not too many brought horses them days. Shahan: He had a portable forge, then? Biggers: Yeah. There was a blacksmith shop somewhere around here. Shahan: Yeah, out there on Old Capitol Trail, out near Richardson's. Biggers: Yeah, yeah, well. Yeah, that's, I know is, why, my place I built a trailer. I had all my boards and I used to go down there if I didn't have anything to do or Roy wasn't busy, I'd go down there and help him in the blacksmith shop and he helped me build my trailer and anything I wanted. |
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